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 What to Change and What to Not: Zelda 3DS

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frozentreasure

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PostSubject: What to Change and What to Not: Zelda 3DS   Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:02 pm

From IGN

Summary:

Change it

- Include the Master Quest gameplay as just a simple on/off switch
- New models, textures and effects
- Make all of those stupid "Triforce Quest" rumours come true; add one in
- Fully 3D town square; and houses, and anywhere else that was originally just a pre-rendered backdrop
- Streamline the Water Temple; apparently that was the bane of a lot of players' existence. Not sure how that works, really
- Interface primarily/entirely on the touch screen
- Better camera control
- Longer Day-to-Night cycles

Leave it

- Voice acting. ("What voice acting?") Precisely.
- Gimmicky stuff. Everyone who buys the game for nostalgia's sake will throw it into the E.T landfill if you have to blow into the mic to play the Ocarina
- Just about everything else that made OoT great and fantastic, gameplay-wise




Apart from the Triforce Quest malarky and to this day not getting why anyone should have been having trouble with the Water Temple (and for a deity's sake, I was 8 when I finished that game), I agree with all those pretty much.

Anyone got any suggestions that Nintendo will never listen to during development, because Shigeru probably finalised everything about it 6 years ago?
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Blitzsword
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PostSubject: Re: What to Change and What to Not: Zelda 3DS   Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:58 pm

I'm not sure exactly what else they could change other than the graphics -- which they are. To me, Ocarina of Time was one of the best games I have ever played. Then again, it wouldn't hurt to see something fresh in a well-known title.

I suppose what I would like to see done is a bigger scale Hyrule. Perhaps new maps added into the game. I'll bring in Pokemon Heart Gold and Soul Silver into this conversation to illustrate what I mean. To those who have or heard of this game, these are remakes of the original Pokemon Gold and Silver that were released in North America back in 2000. The remakes contain several new features that modernize the games all the while still maintaining its originality that made the game. A few new maps were included in the game, albeit small maps, but new nontheless.

Throw in the current combat style used in the current interations such as the Wind Waker or Twilight Princess. Better yet, upgrade from there. Maybe a whole new gameplay mechanic to refreshen the title, though I doubt they'd go that far. Little bits of detail within the gameplay go a really long way.

New quests or side missions is something that comes to mind similar to the FF series. Another thing that I would like to see changed, or rather improved on, is character development for the NPCs. I know most of them were flat characters and not meant to be developed, but having played Majora's Mask, I realized that most of the characters from that game really had much more personality; something that Ocarina of Time lacked. To this day, I will still choose OoT over Majora's Mask, but I will also note the impact the game had in terms of mood, setting, and atmosphere. This is all thanks to the NPCs which at times didn't feel like just random characters who were there for the sake of game progression. I'm not saying give them voice acting, but more dialogue and purpose. Make their presence matter.

I mentioned the story elements of Oot. I'd love to see the story a little more fleshed out than what was presented in the N64. We've got a ton of NPCs in the game, why not make use of them to create a bigger plot. I read part of the OoT manga which was an official story for the N64 game. In that manga, I read about how Impa trained Link to become a better warrior. The earrings Link wears, are a right of passage to the Sheikah training in which Impa gave him after fullfilling his training. Also, Volvagia, was Link's pet dragon since he was a child. As we all know, Volvagia is a boss from the Fire Temple, in which he ends up fighting anyways on the manga. In he manga, Volvagia, was corrupted by Gannondorf to the point of no return forcing Link to kill him off. The tension and drama that the plot twists create are there and I think will benefit a game like this. They may not be perfect examples, but it's something similar to this that I would like to see in the new remake.

Like I said, I doubt any of this would happen or see release. Still, it's something I'd greatly welcome.

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frozentreasure

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PostSubject: Re: What to Change and What to Not: Zelda 3DS   Tue Jul 13, 2010 10:25 pm

Blitzsword wrote:
I suppose what I would like to see done is a bigger scale Hyrule. Perhaps new maps added into the game. I'll bring in Pokemon Heart Gold and Soul Silver into this conversation to illustrate what I mean. To those who have or heard of this game, these are remakes of the original Pokemon Gold and Silver that were released in North America back in 2000. The remakes contain several new features that modernize the games all the while still maintaining its originality that made the game. A few new maps were included in the game, albeit small maps, but new nontheless.

Well what they're talking about was mostly just updating or streamlining stuff. Adding in new maps or altering the current one would change it into something that it isn't. If the map is different or there's new ones, fans won't see it as 'OoT but for the 3DS'. They'd see it as more of a 'Zelda Game that's on the 3DS'.


Quote :
Throw in the current combat style used in the current interations such as the Wind Waker or Twilight Princess. Better yet, upgrade from there. Maybe a whole new gameplay mechanic to refreshen the title, though I doubt they'd go that far. Little bits of detail within the gameplay go a really long way.

Again, that's altering stuff about the gameplay, which is generally what made the game as good as it did. Of course, there needs to be a good balance between keeping what made it good and updating what wouldn't work as well now.

Really, it's an incredibly tricky job. Shigeru and his team need to preserve the feeling that it's still OoT without letting it stagnate and just be OoT but portable and a little less crap-looking.




I'd love to comment on the other stuff, but aside from asking if you're sure that the OoT manga (which I saw on the shelves of the comic book shop, coincidentally enough) is fully canon, I can't/don't want to really say some stuff that I think I already did in an interview for a podcast – about your favourite Zelda.

At least, I'll wait until that comes out so I can mention it in reference to some of the points I'd make about the NPCs.
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Forsaken Lament 44
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PostSubject: Re: What to Change and What to Not: Zelda 3DS   Thu Jul 15, 2010 12:11 pm

Personally, I'd hate to see much changed with this game at all, period. You all know I'm an OoT lunatic and purist, so I'd hate to see this game altered beyond updated graphics...I don't believe gimmicky minigames are needed for two reasons: first, they'll ruin the integrity of this amazing title, and second, there are plenty of games in it to begin with. That was one of the things I loved about OoT that seemed to be missing from some of the others...the overall wealth of minigames, from archery to bombachu bowling, to that game where you pick the treasure chests. All the games were fun and interesting.

As far as NPC's go, I felt attached to most of the characters, particularly the sages. If they TASTEFULLY added more dialogue and such, I wouldn't be against it, but I don't feel it's particularly needed.

Perhaps one thing I would like to see added would be more secret items and holes. One of my favorite parts of the game was discovering the various catacombs, and always wondering what they held. I couldn't get enough of it! I would love to see more with unique items and challenges...maybe even an enemy trial challenge, like in Wind Waker and TP...

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Blitzsword
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PostSubject: Re: What to Change and What to Not: Zelda 3DS   Thu Jul 15, 2010 3:14 pm

I'm going to respectfully disagree with that point of view. We're talking about a much better combat engine here that could be offered. I fail to see how that will drastically change the core element that made Ocarina of Time. If anything, the story is what should remain the same. Yes, maybe tweeking the story and NPCs suggestion was a bit much, but I think the gameplay could be upgraded. The logic is, if they're going as far as remaking the game for the 3DS, they might as well give us a better gameplay engine. The original one, while great as it was at the time, is dated by today's standards considering what we've been given in the current Zelda iterations. I mean, three hacks and a spin attack doesn't do it for me anymore. I'm not talking gimics here where you blow on the device to play the ocarina or any of the sort. Don't care for them, but I wouldn't go as far and say that I hate them either. I suppose, if I wanted to leave everything the same, then I'd go and play the original 64 version of it or the countless re-releases that I have in my library; but that's just me.
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SmashedBrother
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PostSubject: Re: What to Change and What to Not: Zelda 3DS   Thu Jul 15, 2010 8:12 pm

Personally, I think that they should leave well enough alone when it comes to the story. While I would have liked the NPCs to have more character, they're still excellent, and there's a saying about not fixing what isn't broken......

I don't think we see very many changes with the game, which IMO is for the best. As Blitzsword suggested, an improved combat system would be nice although I think it's a bit of a reach. I think we can expect to see some extra sidequests - a trial run could be fun like Forsaken mentioned.

Finally, I would hate for them to mess with the Water Temple. I loved that one precisely because it wasn't streamlined. I just get tired of the "do something obvious and move to the next room" routine, and I thought they handled it fairly well. [/fan rant]

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Forsaken Lament 44
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PostSubject: Re: What to Change and What to Not: Zelda 3DS   Thu Jul 15, 2010 9:09 pm

Completely agreed on the Water Temple Smashed...I admit, it was a pain, and I did DREAD it every time I replayed OoT...but you know what? It was challenging, and that is EXACTLY what Zelda needs more of. Recent Zelda games have become increasingly easy...I never died in TP, and the puzzles were nothing. I do like to be challenged, as I personally believe that the greater the challenge, the more satisfying experience...I hope they leave it alone, especially the epic Dark Link battle.

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SmashedBrother
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PostSubject: Re: What to Change and What to Not: Zelda 3DS   Thu Jul 15, 2010 9:35 pm

Glad to know it's not just me Forsaken! Smile To me the challenge is half the fun of the game. While I never hit a dead end for a long period of time, it kept me thinking the whole way through, and was one of the best parts of the game for me.

The one thing I would change would be to make Shadow Link a little bit more vulnerable. I mean, does he have to stun you whenever you use a thrust attack?????

Oh, back on topic, I agree with Blitzsword that the combat system should be improved. Among many things, I hope Link gets to use his sword on Epona this time around. I never understood why you couldn't do that. scratch

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Last edited by SmashedBrother on Sat Jul 17, 2010 9:54 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Everlong

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PostSubject: Re: What to Change and What to Not: Zelda 3DS   Sat Jul 17, 2010 5:52 pm

Well, I think I largely agree with the IGN perspective on it, except for the Triforce Quest. It had all those rumors, but I never honestly cared about them in the slightest. It never really interested me and wouldn't in an OoT remake for the 3DS, unless I wanted to be a completionist. A touch screen-based interface would be very cool, though. I also agree that doing something like blowing into the 3DS' mic for the ocarina would be cool at first, but its novelty would wear off pretty quickly.

I agree with Blitz as far as his suggestions go, as well. More quests and improved side stories for certain characters would be very cool to have; I always found OoT's story to be...well, passable, I guess, but not that great. It never made me feel like I was honestly part of Hyrule like MM or TP did. If we could incorporate ideas from the manga (which, Roy, is only partially canon; certain aspects of it like Volvagia were intended, but its abridged nature...not so much) that would be very cool. I would also like to see them try to tie in MM and TP more, connection-wise. I've wondered if the mirror in the Spirit Temple you move wasn't meant to be the Twilight Mirror - ok, that's pulling a George Lucas as far as intention goes, but Nintendo likes to throw in little references like that and an extended sequence with the Skull Kid (the villain of MM) you give the Skull Mask to would be great as well. In the GBA ALttP remake, we got to see a broken Four Sword...

As far as combat improvements go, ala TWW's or TP's, I most emphatically agree with that. OoT's combat system has not aged well, in my opinion. Playing TP or TWW and then OoT or even MM, one can definitely feel the difference...and it's not good. OoT's, and to a lesser extent MM's, feel sluggish in comparison. Granted, this is probably a result of technical limitations, but it's still there. If this is indeed the case, there's no reason not to bring it up to date on the 3DS. Another thing is that I think Hyrule Field should feel more alive. I often hear the criticism that TP's Hyrule Field doesn't feel as 'alive' as OoT's does, and while I'm at a loss to explain how that works out (they're both pretty barren), I think that's a good sticking point: Hyrule Field should have actual people in it.

I want to see Goron merchants and caravans moving around, Zoras swimming in the rivers, Hyrulean soldiers marching being accompanied by members of the royal government, maybe if you get close to Kokiri Forest, you can see brief hints of them before you arrive (perhaps in another LoZ nod - Ordona is nearby?)...whatever that might mean. I want to fight Gerudo raiders and the like. That's a tall order, but it would almost certainly help make it more memorable to me.
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PostSubject: Re: What to Change and What to Not: Zelda 3DS   Sat Jul 17, 2010 10:11 pm

My single complaint about OoT is, like Luis & Everlong said, the characters weren't fleshed out like they could have been. Unfortunately, I don't see how Nintendo could pull it off.....

I read the first part of the manga (just last week in fact!) and while it was fun, it was definitely not canon. Several aspects of it contradict the game's version. For example, Volvalgia was a dragon that had plagued the Gorons a 1000 years or so ago that Ganondorf had resurrected, not Link's pet. Nintendo could choose to follow the manga, but I don't think they'd want to risk the time & effort on something that could easily blow up.

The idea of a livelier Hyrule Field is awesome Keeping in mind that there probably wouldn't be much fighting in the King's Hyrule, (and thus all the merchants, though probably few bodyguards or government officials) I love the idea of the Gerudo raiders in Future Hyrule. They'd finally be something worth fighting on Epona!

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